FAQ’s (page 1)

Tips and FAQ’s (page 1)

Click the question, then when you’re done click the to return to the question list.

Question links:

How hard is this to do? It’s actually much easier than you think. If you look at a baking recipe and make cookies from scratch, this is the same skill. There are definitely places to be very precise on at first, such as adding the correct amount of sand and hardener to the resin mix. Usually, the first round of holds is a learning time, so I suggest making small holds to limit costly mistakes, but it is easy to figure out.

How much does it cost? A gallon of Bondo Resin is about $25, but there are smaller containers you can start with. It is usually cheaper to buy in bulk. Sand, washers, dyes…are cheap. The silicone for molds is $3-$4 and you will use about three-quarters to a full tube on a large hold or one tube on for to five small holds. I usually produce about 20 small holds, 15-20 medium holds, and a few “bondo sucker” massive holds. What would normally cost $100+ to order is now less than $25.

Have you tested the strength of you holds? Yes and no. I have not gone and professionally tested or measured the compression strength. However, most of my holds are in a climbing gym and have been used daily for about a year now. The holds are favorites at the gym and have stood the abuse test by now. In fact, another gym is now requesting a set, so you should worry more about design flaws leading to weak thin breakable areas than compression strength.

Will the holds be like the professional holds? The larges difference between professional holds and Bondo holds are the texture. Either the resin and/or the process in making the professional holds makes them different. However, through the USCCA Competitions held at the climbing gym, the bondo holds I made were preferred many times to the manufactured because of the “more realistic feel and design”. You decide.

How do I get a better texture on the holds I’m making? This is an ever changing answer. I used to like the feel the green Styrofoam Oasis gave to the holds, but then I found that Drywall Medium Grit Sandpaper works extremely well on clay designs. Actually, the sandpaper also allows for duel texture similar to that of Voodoo holds. Go raid the house and workshop for textures! Hey, you might even use a real sandstone to press on soft clay, or simply bypass the design hold and mold the sandstone! Let me know what works for you!

How do I dye my holds different colors? Currently, I simply use a cement dye and add about one small drop per 5 oz. of resin/sand/harder mix. I’ve also heard the ink from Bic pens is excellent. Either way, you basically first make the pour mix, then split it into two, or three (or however many colors you will have), STIR VERY THOUROUGLY, and pour in at the same time into the mold. I’m now going to correspond with a resin company to find out the best resin/dye mix for making professional quality holds, so check back!

What should I use as a filler with the Bondo Resin? First, the filler both strengthens the hold and makes the process much cheaper. I currently only use fine-grade silica sand, but have tried adding morter to it. I just found that the morter makes the texture slicker, so I just use sand now. At a 60% sand/40% resin mix, the cost savings is huge.

What are the advantages of using Bondo Autobody Filler vs. Bondo Resin? I tried Bondo Autobody Filler first because it is cheaper. I also switched to Resin immediately after. The Autobody Filler can make hold-making easier, but the texture is rubbery. Plus it costs more overall. The quality of the Resin is much better and worth the initial investment difference.

Are there any other Resins I can use besides Bondo? Yes! There are tons out there in Marine shops or online. Visit US Composites or Bare-Metal.com for a look at the options.

What are the advantages and disadvantages of plastic, concrete, real rock, wood, or ceramic holds?

Plastic: Good design potential, hard to break, but is an insulating material which means it will warm with your hands and cause that slick plastic feeling.
Concrete: Good design potential, easy to break/crack, and will feel cool to touch (like rock).
Real Rock: Little design potential, easy to break/chip/crack, best possible realism for feel.
Ceramic: Good design potential, easy to break/chip/crack, feels cool to touch (like rock).

What are important factors when designing holds? The holds need to first be functional. Go look at holds in the gym. Notice how the edges are rounded where the fingers contact. Look for things you don’t like too, such as boring designs that just look like goofy plastic and not anything like rock. When you find a design, make it stable around the bolt. This may mean adding a little more to an area for structural support. Have fun.

Email Q&A: The Smelly Hold Delimma and Tip for Bondo putty holds “…I started off using the Bondo Autobody filler paste instead of the liquid. It was only $4.50 for a quart of the paste at Wal-Mart. I mixed it about 50/50 with sand and added hardener. Then I smacked it into the bottoms of plastic containers I had cut up with a utility knife, or I just hand formed the holds and laid them out on wax paper (wearing vinyl gloves).I’m pretty happy with the resulting holds. I’ve not been able to break one. And by pressing sand into the surface of the hold before it is fully hardened I get a pretty good and realistic texture. Today I bought a quart of liquid resin for about $10 at Wal-Mart. I’m going to try your method but I’ll pour them into my plastic molds. I’ve been spraying the inside of the plastic with WD40 and that has prevented the Bondo from sticking to the plastic.”
Question: The only problem here… the holds stink. Like, they smell bad. Even after sitting outside for a couple days I bring them inside and they are able to be smelled from across the room. The small wall I am going to build will be in a spare room and I don’t think my wife or I want it to smell like an autobody shop. Have you experienced this? Perhaps the liquid Bondo won’t have this left over odor, but I’m guessing it will. I’ve considered filling a box with baking soda and burying the holds in there for a few days but I’m not sure that will work. Does everybody making Bondo holds use them in garages or outdoors where odor isn’t an issue? Thanks for the informative web site! -Aaron
Answer: Thanks for the tips Aaron. The holds I’ve made tend to have that smell for about a week until the hold completely cures. The holds are plenty strong after an hour or two, but if the smell is too much, I’d recommend leaving them outside in an open box or laying out on a table for a week.

Email Q&A: Adding Hold Color

..Well I just made my first holds tonight! I was surprised how easy it was. And they turned out pretty good – for my first time anyway. I think I learned a lot for the next set. I did use some food coloring and it worked pretty good. The colors are pretty dark though. A lot of the commercial holds have fairly bright colors, even white.
Question: Have you found anyway to duplicate that using the fiberglass resin / sand combo? Again, thanks for all the help!- Justin
Answer: Justin, I haven’t had a chance yet to explore the clear polyester resins, but have found the US Composites website with information and products you could try. I also recently found a web site with a recipe for dying sand. With clear resin and colored sand, you might get the effect you want, or at least close. Here’s the recipe I found:

To dye sand: (

To Senegal Crafts Page Web Site

1 Tablespoon liquid fabric dye or 1 teaspoon powder dye
½ cup sifted sand
3/4 cup hot water
Plastic cup or container
Mix dye with hot water. Add sand. Let soak for two hours. Sand will be at the bottom of the cup. Carefully pour off colored water. Dry sand by spreading it on newspaper or paper towels. After dry, pour sand into cup or paper plate.

Although the recipe may work, it would be tedious for each hold. The other option is to use resin dyes found from the places you buy the resin. One example is the US Composites web site as . I was also recently tipped to the http://www.Bare-Metal.com website and, after talking to them through email, am looking forward to learning much more about resins. I will definitely post any info that will help to make the holds closer to the professional quality.

Email Q&A: Hold Shape Problems Hello, I’m having a problem with making my shapes for holds. In your pictures, yours look so professional like the ones on the market but mine do not. I’m using clay and my holds don’t look nearly as geometric and just plain as good as yours or any on the market.
Question: I think my ideas for the holds are good, that’s not the problem, it’s the craftsmenship I guess. Do you have any suggestions for me? Thank you for your help.
Answer:Dave, I’m actually working on a page to talk just about that subject. I held a class on making holds at the local gym and found that many others are having the same problem. For now, I’d suggest using the green oasis blocks ($2 for a six pack at Hobby Lobby — flower section) and carve. It seems much easier to work with when you are starting out. Then work into clay since it does offer many advantages for texture choice. As for designs, start by mimicing professional holds. This will get your hands and ideas used to shapes that seem to work on the wall. Then, you will naturally break from their style into your own. This is the best part because you actually improve past manufactured designs for your personal use! I found out my site’s menu bar is not working for a lot of people, so as soon as I can revamp my website I’ll post up the new gallery page with hints and tips for the specific designs. Hopefully this will be soon.

Email Q&A: Bolt Hole and Washer Problems:
Question: I read your articles and I am totally cool with all that. Now I have two questions. How do you keep the washer in the right place? and Do you drill a hole for the bolts? Thanks a lot for the informative website!
Answer:Roger, you are asking exactly the right questions, so you are on the right track. For the washer: When making the prototype, you will need to push in an indention of the bolt head as it seems you are doing. Next, at the base of the bolt head indention you made, you need to use the threaded end of the bolt to make a small indention at the base of the bolt head hole. This will give your mold a small nipple that the washer sits on and holds it while the plastic hardens around it. I’ll redo that part of the article to make it clearer. (thanks for the tip!). For the drilling: Yes, you will need a 3/8″ bit for the final touch on the hold. After the hold is out of the mold, then you need to drill a hole down through the washer PERPENDICULAR TO THE FLOOR. This means, lay it on a flat level surface, and even check the bubble on the drill if you have one. If it is crooked, it will not sit right on the wall and fixing that problem is not easy.

Email Q&A: Washer Alignment for Drilling: Great site. I got a wild hair and decided to make some holds. I looked on the net and was lucky enough to hit your site. I finished my first molds today and they turned out ok – pretty good for being so inexpensive. Here are some tips/notes from my first try. Thanks again. Dave<
Tips from Dave:

Question#1:Should you dry the prototype before you apply the silicone? I tried it with the clay wet and that acutally worked well… I can reuse the clay on different prototypes. I then tried sticking some rouch sand on the outside of my prototype (texture) and then let it dry. That worked too. What do you do?
Get the silicone at Walmart too, $1.99 each compared to HomeDepot. 🙂
Soak the silicone in HOT water before using it. It is a trick I have used before on other projects. It works great: makes the silicon very sorft and gooey.
Really really really pay attention to smearing the silicone on the mold. It is really easy to get bubbles, pockets, etc. that screw up your design.
Colors. I tried food coloring. The red turned out brown and the blue turned out some sort of green. I guess I need a lot more or something. I added about 12 drops for 5oz of goop. I’m trying a new experiment. I’m dying the sand with food coloring first. I’ll try yellow holds tomorrow. 🙂
Get you bolts here (or somewhere else online… a LOT cheaper) http://www.boltdepot.com/
Use a masonry bit to drill out the bolt hole. That sand will eat a “normal” drill bit alive. The bolt and washer holes didn’t work out that well on my holds. Maybe you can clarify this part of the instructions.
Question#2: Do you push it all the way through? Do you make an indention for the washer?

Thanks for the tips Dave! The 1.99 for Silicone at Walmart is very good news. I also apply the silicone to wet clay since it sticks better and it is easier to avoid bubbles. That is good advice for soaking the silicone, I’ll add it to the instructions as an option.

Answer: Here’s the cure for misalignment with your washer and drilling: When you press the bolt head into the clay prototype do some small circle motions to widen the hole a bit. Make sure to leave a flat base to the hole. Then use the threaded side of your bolt to make a small indention IN THE CENTER of the flat base you just made. Make the indention about 1/4″ or whatever you think would make a good holder for the washer. As long as it is centered and the base is flat, you will not have any problems. I’ll try to clear up this in the instructions since it is a very important step.

Email Q&A: Using sugar/salt as a texture agent:
Mark’s Tip: i live in new zealand and am at uni studing mech enginnering. i have just started climbing and i was investigating different ways to make holds for a wall in our flat next year. i have a had an idea for making the hold textured, i have not tried this yet, but i believe this would work. make a sliicon mold as you would normaly. make up a solution of wate and sugar, spray it in the inside of the mold. leave it too dry intill it gets quite sticky, then sprinkle some small grained sugar of salt in it.leave that to dry for a bit. pour the resin suff in and do what ever eles you do. once the mould has hardend,take it out and rinse under warmish water, the sugar will dissolve leaving you with lots of little pits, similar to the comercial texture. let me know how you get on excellent site, lot of good information. mark
Answer: I did think of using a dissolving type of solution like salt once, but found that the crystals usually are either melted by the high temperature of the hardener-resin chemical reaction or they are simply engulfed by it. This does bring up the idea of making the clay prototype hold pitted by simply tossing some sugar/salt crystals on it,pressing it in a bit, and heating the clay. This would harden the clay and dissolve sugar crystals leaving the pits. The silicone mold from this might get you that manufactured texture. Either way, it certainly has potential! Thanks for the idea! If my grad studies keep me from trying it soon, hopefully another reader will and can respond to let us know! *Hint Hint*

Email Tip: Using salt for texture 7/17/03: Your web-site has been a big help in my hold making adventures. As the current President of a small college climbing club in Northern Missouir we are constantly trying to find or build places to climb cheaply. Needless to sy making my own holds has helped a lot, especially in getting big jugs. I really want to try concete holds soon, but am still looking for more information and time before I start that project.
Tip: Well enough rambling my one tip I had for fellow hold-makers was to try using salt when making yours holds. I found that if you pour/rub salt over the surface of a playdough model it kind of eats into the play-dough resulting in very nice texture (ie those little holes that professional holds have. This effect seems to be even better if you mix salt into the resin, or if you line your mold with some salt. I have been using regular table salt, but I thin ka mix of table and kosher or sea salt would result in a more varied texture since table salt is relatively constant as it is. Well that is about it, one note of warning of course is that the salt does seem to ruin the play-dough, but with as cheap as it is I wouldn’t worry too much. Thanks Much, Ben

Reply: Thanks for the play-doh salt tip Ben! I’m glad you wrote about this because I have a question for you. You mentioned that you were able to use salt on the mold or to have salt on the outside of the resin… how did you keep the resin from coating the salt? When I tried it, I could see the salt crystals near the surface, but a thin wall of resin always kept the dissolving part not possible. I also have a question about your play-doh method. Are you making a mold with the salt on the play-doh making pits in the mold? Or, are you dissolving the salt on the playdoh and then making a mold from the pitted play-doh? If it was the latter, you should end up with a bunch of bumps hanging off the inside of the mold… do these end up coming off with the cured resin hold? This is a great way to make good texture on cheap holds. Thanks, Steve

Email Q&A: Idea: Using a sand mold?:
Cx’s Tip:I really appreciate your website. It is very informative. I’ve used several different types of uerethanes including some expensive stuff I ordered out of Dallas. But so far nothing has worked as well as either kind of Bondo anyone can buy at the local store. But onto MOLDS. Have you tried molding sand. It is a combination of clay and sand used in smeltering plants where they cast peices of metal. Its used because it does not melt and is reusable. The beauty of this, in theory, is that it could be the mold itself. It is suppose to be shaped AND it could be made as smooth or as gritty as you like simply by adding more sand to the surface. Furthermore, it will not move as you scoop the resin into the mold AND it would be possible to make up several molds, a bucket of resin and simply go down the line making holds. Anyway, I have yet to try it because my schedule has not allowed me to follow up on the idea. Put it out here and see what happens. Great site! Cx
Answer: I looked it up and it would certainly make a tough mold that could stand the heat! It would probably have to be a two-part mold for incut holds since it isn’t flexible like silicone, but it would almost be like injection molding! Thanks for the idea!

Email Q&A: Inset washer, t-nut, and hold cost questions

A few questions that I couldn’t find answers:

Question: I have about 6 holds, could I merely use them for the model? Answer: I’m not sure if that will work. I’ve thought about it a few times, but I’m pretty sure you will not get the same texture. The material they use is a bit different than the polyester resin, so you might end up with a slick feeling replica. Hey, try it with a small jib! If you get a good texture, you’re set!
Question:The washer is put into the mold before you pour the goop and then becomes part of the hold itself?Answer: Yes it is inset, but make sure you have the right size washer and that it is centered before you pour the resin in. Otherwise you will end up trying to drill the final hole through a part of the washer. Not fun.
Question: The wall I am planning on building will be bolted to the outside of my house. Is there a hold per square foot ratio so I would know how many to make? Answer: I’ve read several different opinions on how to space the t-nut holes, but I think the best idea is to do what it says on Climbing Wall Resource. Screw the wall onto the frame with decking screws so you can always unscrew it and add more t-nut holes later (and insets too.. nice to have on a wall).http://www.geocities.com/Yosemite/Trails/9640/build2.html
Question: Lastly, with the question above, I am worried about cost. I saw some sites selling 40 pieces for roughly 100.00
Answer: You will probably make about 40 medium sized pieces for $30-40. If you can figure out how to maximize your desins, it gets even cheaper while your holds get better. I’d mix your bondo holds with manufactured, wooden… holds since variety adds a lot to a small space.

You have a pretty cool site. Ed

Email Q&A: Siliconing med-incut holds

Hey…I’ve been starting to make my own climbing holds for my wall, and first-off, your website is the best guide to making resin holds I’ve seen on the web…thanks!

Questions:

How much viscosity will silicone actually lose when soaked in hot water? I dunked the whole tube in hot water (from the tap…not boiling) for about 15 minutes and I had quite a time trying to get even coverage when covering the holds…to sticky.
Second, what’s the best way to create a mold for holds with incuts on the back of the hold? I have a couple medium size holds which have incut holds. I’ve heard you can put the whole hold flat in a small container, and fill the whole thing up with silicone to immerse the hold. Is this good practice, or is there a better way?

Jib On! Brian
Answer: Brian, thanks for the compliment on the site. When you say the back of the hold, I’m assuming you are saying the side that faces the wall. You can use a container to fill up with silicone, but that is really expensive. Also, if you are having a difficult time getting the silicone to come out of the tube, simply cut the opening farther back to make the hole bigger. I went throught some very pumped forearms before figuring out that simple thing. Here’s what I do for severe incuts on med-large holds:

Get the cardboard and screws/toothpicks ready.
Holding the prototype in one hand with the incut side (back side) facing you, spread about a half inch layer of silione over all the incut area.
Make sure the silicone is spread all the way to the edges.
Now flip the hold over, secure the backside to the cardboard, and recheck the silicone to see that it meets the cardboard along the entire incut edge. (it’s important)
Now just silicone the rest of the hold.

HINT: add silicone to about an inch thick around that edge of your hold between the top side and the incut side. It has to be thick enough to hold it’s shape when you add resin later. Good luck on the wall!

Email Q&A: Mold Air Bubbles and Ridges.

Great site!
Question: When I am applying the silicone over my foam model I sometimes get “ridges” or bubbles on the surface of the mold. These of course, are not found until the mold has cured and I have destroyed my original pulling it from the mold. Frustrating…. I usually fill the hole, divot, or crease with more silicone but this causes me to loose texture in that area and makes for an odd hold when the plastic is poured. Any helpful suggestions? Do you know of any fast drying mold making material that can be spread over real rock? I’ve been playing with inset hold on my home wall and would like to simulate some of pockets and slots found on climbs at Reimers like those on Body Wax, Crankenstien, and of the classic lines of 8-flake and deadcats. Inset holds allow me to make pockets without the stupid thing protruding out of the wall, you have to actually toe in and work your feet. Thanks for your help in advance and keep up the excellent work. MARK
Answer: Glad you like the site! If you are using foam, try blowing off all the fine particles still on the surface from carving. This helps me to make the silicone stick better. Also, make sure to add the silicone in small overlapping circles (kind of like waxing a car). After while you will get better at it. I’ve never had to try these, but some people really like either heating up the silicone in hot water first, or adding a little mineral water to it. This is one of the main reasons I’ve switched to clay. It makes molds ten times better than the foam with very few, if any, ridges or bubbles. Also, the drywall sandpaper makes excellent texture.You are right about using inset holds. I’m definitely going to make these holds when I finish my Masters and get a house. Not many write about it, but the best article I’ve read about this is on the Climbing Wall Resource describing Resin Pies. For longer deep grooves, I’m convinced there is a way to use the sides of the 2×4 or 2×6 beams behind the wall for the incut holds. By just designing your prototype foam/clay for side anchoring against the beam, it should provide an excellent support, especially near the joints. You could then cut the opening near the beam to fit the hold (in theory). As far as molding from the actual rock, I think you will find that your bondo hold is slick and painful (mine were). In order to get the realistic feeling of rock from Bondo, you need to exaggerate the texture and smooth the curves, or face flappers and cuts. I will definitely post up any solutions for anchoring inset holds that come in!

Email Q&A: Need Silica Sand?
Question: Hi! I made several holds but they seem to be weak, some of them broke. Besides, their surface is glossy, shiny, even though they have a nice texture. I wanted to know if the silica sand is the missing ingredient. I think that would make them stronger and improve the texture. Is that right? I´m using poliester resin (the only one I can get here, in Argentina, but is almost the same you use) and plain sand… Your page is really useful!!! Thank you very much… Jessica
Answer: Jessica,it does help to have silica sand because the smaller size grain adds a better media to support the resin. Another suggestion for you is to get some sawdust and mix a little of that in. I’d suggest trying about half support media and half resin/harnder mix. Of the support media, make about a fifth of it sawdust and the rest play sand (or silica if you can get it!). If your holds are not flexing and are too brittle, add less hardner and give it more time to cure. For an extremely realistic texture on a crimper, make a flat hold and break the edges. The inside of the cured resin feels just like granite.

Email Q&A: Silicone Technique?
Question: Hi. Your site has helped me a ton, and I’m only getting better at making these holds as time goes on, but I’m still having a couple of problems. First off, I can’t ever seem to make a perfect mold. I am very careful about the way I apply it, I use a spoon and smooth it to try and push down the silicone, and I vibrate it for like 10 minutes but there is always some little spot, sometimes big ones where the silicone doesn’t sit down. I’m starting to think it’s the silicone I’m using. I’m using this GE stuff I’m buying at Home Depot. It’s Silicone 1, Window and Door, 100% silicone rubber sealant. What is the stuff that you use? Also, the holds usually feel kinda greasy, I’ve heard of things called micro balloons, like tiny glass beads I guess, to try and make the hold feel dryer. Are you familiar with this? The Home Depot people didn’t have a clue. I appreciate any help you can give me. Thanks.

Answer: Dave, thanks for the compliment on the site. The bondo will tend to get a slick feeling, but one way to avoid it is by using the green styrofoam blocks from Hobby Lobby. They come in a pack of 4 or 6 for about 2 bucks. Make sure it is the styrofoam, not the fine grained flower blocks if you want course texture. It’s worked great on my last hold. As far as applying the silicone, this is one area I need to update on the site. The number one way to avoid bubbles is to do a very thourough job of blowing off the shavings on the prototype before trying to apply the silicone. The method of applying the silicone is an art in itself. I’ve had a lot of success with moving in slow circular motions like spreading wax on a car. It sort of pushes the silicone over the hold. The key is this: If you try to match up two edges of silicone you’ve spread on the hold, you’ll get bubbles. So always start in one place, then simply continue to push the silicone edge until it covers the hold. If you have to stop spreading at some point, restart on top of the silicone near the edge and continue to push the edge out farther. In the cases when you simply can’t avoid meeting two edges of silicone, try to make the edges meet at a place where filing would be easy. Good luck!

Email Q&A: Use microbubbles for texture?
Question: I just read your climbing holds section. I am going to be building a wall soon. I have been thinking about the question of texture. I have a theory of how it is done commercially, though I really don’t know. I was thinking that it was from sandblasting the hold once it is made. I don’t know if they put microfiller (little bubbles) in the resin to be opened up or what. This isn’t that practical for the DIY practitioner, but anyway. alex
Answer: It’s possible that the microbubbles might be the answer to their secret “manufactured” texture, but there’s a couple things that make me think is isn’t. Voodoo holds had dual texture holds that are very slick on the outside. If the hold was made with microbubbles, they couldn’t have the slick sides. Also, all holds are filed off on the backpart that meets the wall. There are a few bubbles in this side, but these are most likely due to trapped air bubbles. So, whatever they are doing, they are doing only to the grippable surface area. It would be interesting if a disgruntled handhold employee emailed the answer to this big question on all our minds… (hint to readers).
Tip: In response to “do you know where to get these microbubbles?… west system epoxy has them and they could be ordered at least through anybody who carries their brand. Anyone who specializes in epoxy, composite or boat building supplies may and should carry them. Aircraft Spruce and Specialty (877-4SP-RUCE) has some glass beads but they don’t say what size. I have no idea whether they are any good for our needs but I assume it would be worth trying as it is $7 for a pound which is about a gallon. Let me know if you do. Alex
Reply: Hey thanks Alex. This could really help to produce an excellent texture. If I can get a hold of some during the x-mas break I’ll certainly try it. I’ll also post this up on the site to let others know. I’m interested in seeing how it works alongside the sand.

Email Q&A: Climbing Wall Patterns
Great information, I am just getting back into climbing with my son after be out of it for years. I would like to build a climbing wall outside. I have two question.
Questions:(2/9/03)Will this type of hold work outside in the elements? My son is 10 so I would like to fix the wall in a pattern that is easy for him. Where can I find patters for placing the holds? Thank you for your time
Answer: Bondo holds will work fine outdoors. As for the wall, I actually wouldn’t be as much help to you as would the information on The Climbing Wall Resource Database. You will find a ton of excellent tips from people who went through the trials of doing just what you are talking about. Just keep in mind when you are making you wall that the more t-nuts you have, the more variety of patterns you can have which keeps it fun for you kid! I really recommend reading about basic rules to making routes (such as keeping the holds within the length of a stretched out elbow from the previous hold in a route) before just throwing them on. Hope this helps. I know the database will. –Steve

Email Q&A: Making Large Jugs
Great site you have on building holds! Have made quite a few so far and they have come out great – did need a little filing though.
Questions:(2/15/03)Two questions: Have you made any large jugs? If so did you do anything different in producing the mold. Second, 3rd, question – Did you do anything to the holds contact surface to prevent spinning? thanks and you have saved me a bunch on holds… didn’t think I could do it until I came across your site!!! Dwight
Answer: Thanks for the compliments Dwight, glad it’s helping. I have made a couple large jugs, but they eat up the Bondo pretty fast and that gets pricey. I’d really recommend trying cement or wood as a media for large jugs. If you do decide to try one, you might want to silicone the prototype, let it dry, then add a second layer. If you do this, and use sand as a support when pouring your hold, you’ll be ok. One major consideration when making big jugs it to make sure you can slide if off. If it is severely incut, make the opposite side very slopey. This will allow it to slide off the cured resin like a sock. As for the spinning, the main reason that happens is either an uneven surface or you got the bolt hole crooked. In this case, you might try putting a very thin layer of foam between the hold and wood. You can get the foam from Walmart craft sections for cheap. Oh, if you decide to try cement, email Sam Shank for some advice. (http://www.geocities.com/samshank/). He seems like a cool guy and I’m sure he’d have a ton of helpful advice on this.

Email Q&A: Incurable Silicone
Question: 3/19/03 hi, i am having a problem with my molds. first off i did not use clay for the first two holds i made i used tin foil because i wanted that type of texture. well i did two holds on the same 6 by 3 inch piece of styrofoam i had laying around (instead of card board) and it has been 3 days and the mold has still not cured. i had it outside for those three days i have now brought it indoors to see if it cures. the mold in some areas is about an inch think. did i over do it on the silicon? will it ever cure? and what about placing it in the oven on a very low temp to help cure it? any info you could give would be great THANKS! 🙂 -burton
Answer: I’ve never run into this problem before so I’ve not tried heating it in an oven. Silicone is extremely inert, so I doubt it is reacting to the styrofoam or tin foil. I’m pretty sure it is a temperature deal. You can either leave it out indoors or outdoors, whichever is warmer, for as long as it takes (it will eventually cure). As for the oven trick, it might work. It is possible you will either get air bubbles in the mold, or it will start sending out some foul smell into your oven which will flavor your food from that point on. If you are using an off brand, or not 100% silicone, this is why. I’ve tried a silicone-latex and run into a week long curing process before even in the TX summer heat. Let me know if you dare to try the oven thing and it works.

Email Q&A: Salvage the Green Foam Prototype?

First I’d like to say thanks for all the great info you’ve put on your site for making climbing holds. I’ve started experimenting with making molds, with moderate success so far. Question: 5/6/03: I decided to try using the green Oasis foam to make the prototype and found it a lot better and easier than I thought it would be. After creating several prototypes I decided to try making a silicone mold from one of them. I used 100% silicone caulking like you said and covered the hold about 1/4″ to 1/2″ all around. I found that it took almost 2 days to mostly dry with only the outer half drying in the first day. My problem was that I found it very difficult to remove the green foam from the silicone without having to completely destroy the green foam. The silicone really stuck to it making it difficult to remove. I also found I had to let it sit for even another day after breaking away most of the silicone to allow some of the small corners to completely dry. Any suggestions on what I can do to make removal of the green foam easier? Thanks a lot. =)TySoN
Answer: That happens to me too, but never longer than three days. I think it has to do with the thickness as well as what temperature and humidity it is where it is drying. However, there are still some times when it just doesn’t want to cure very fast… who knows. What I do know is that even though my patience runs thin and it’s incredibly hard not to tear into it and start making holds right away, leaving it in a sunny spot that is somewhat dry to just let it cure works. You’ll get a feel for this as you keep trying. Also, most times you will not be able to salvage the green foam, especially when you have incut portions. If you wait long enough for the silicone to cure it does get easier to pull it out later. Hope this helps! Just remember to blow off all the shaving before applying the mold… can’t stress that enough… since it will reduce the sharp points in the hold and add texture.

Email Tip: Advice from an Artist: Mold Making
Tip: I’m just starting to attempt to build my own rocks and I came across your site and I have a couple of tips since I have done alot of mold building in the past, you will drastically speed up molding time by using liquid latex. you can find it online at http://www.alpineimports.com under mold builder ( 34.95) it is amazing, you have to start out slow and put 2-3 thin filmlike layers on to get the texture of the positive then you can spread in on strips of burlap and continue to cover it ( you need to wait for each layer to dry, I keep a halogen lamp on the area the whole time to speed up drying) once you have a layer of the burlap over the whole thing cut more strips of burlap and soak them in plaster and once again cover the hold this will prevent the latex from moving when you pour the resin. Once it is all dry pop it off and scoop out your original rock. also a slightly more cost effective solution to clay is play dough. I found a package of 5, 5 oz cups of it for $1.50 at wal mart. also when you cast in liquid latex this stuff called PVA mold release (6.99 hobby lobby) works very well just two or three really really thin layers and the resin pops right out. wow, I just reread what I wrote and I’m sorry if i have come off as a know-it-all, but you got me excited that other people are trying to do the same thing as me…oh and also a website called http://www.uscomposites.com sells a crystal clear polyester casting resin cheap its 19.95 for a gallon kit, this stuff will catalyze the way it says if you add the correct no. of drops or no. of fl. oz. in the provided measuring cup. Thank you for the clues on how to put the pilot hole for the bolts into the rock I was really racking my brain on how to do that. PS. Since you are using fiberglass resin please, please, PLEASE, use proper ventilation AND a respirator, I know it costs alot of money but being a studio art major I have heard of too many people meeting their ends way too soon from inhaling resin fumes. Thank you for considering my ideas, Ben

Email Tip: Using 60 Degree Countersinks.
Tip: I have found that using 60 degree countersunk (tapered) bolts , instead of the standard 90 degree counterbored cap bolts , spreads the load over the grip and reduces the tendancy for them to spin (I tried cutting rubber backings but found it to time consuming). I’ve had a couple of grips crack on me when I overtightened them (with counterbored bolts) before and am presently experimenting with a foam (can’t remember what it’s called) that is meant to absorb the resin , thus making them stronger. It does mean that I won’t have any reusable molds, but each grip will be unique and have more natural strength if it works. Probably cost more too. Cheers, Greg

Email Tip: Gel Coat Tint Coloring?.
Tip: 9/25/02: Hi Steve, I really enjoyed your directions on making climbing holds. I am going to build a wall in the spring for my children ( 2 boys, ages 5 & 7) and I figure that if I get all the prep work done during the winter, I’ll be able to put it up as soon as the weather becomes agreeable. I have done some gel coating repairs on various cars & boats in the past. To make Kid-attractive holds, can you (or have you ever heard of ) using Gel coat tint to color the sand/ resin mix. You mentioned food coloring I but wasn’t sure if the food color would eventually wash out. I’ve seen kid holds in bright colors and was curious if you had any preferences. Why did you mention to optionally put foam on the back of the molds when making holds. Is there a benefit? Wouldn’t this interfere with final filing? Thanks for your answers and insight. I’ll send you a pic of the final products after I finish them Good luck in Grad School I know what kind of pressure it puts on a normal life. Been there, done that, have the t-shirt to prove it. Jack

Email Tips: Advice From Sam Shank.
Tip: 10/1/02:I found your site while I was checking out the top referers on mine (concrete climbing holds.) A few things – you mentioned checking out marine stores for your resin. I found a gallon of the cheapest resin they had there for $15. Much cheaper than Home Depot. Use GE Silicone II. It’s more elastic than I (100% more elastic, I think.) and I’ve had much better results with it. Regarding ridges on your holds from voids while applying silicone (to the floral foam) – you mentioned blowing it off from all the dust you make. Emphasize this again – this is 80% of the battle right there. I use my compressor and air gun. I get professional quality texture on my holds when I make my prototypes with floral foam (I don’t like clay.) I use 120 or 80 grit sandpaper (it makes a mess – have your shopvac handy) to do the final shaping. Then THOROUGHLY clean it. I’ve only had 2 concrete holds break on me. They were the first 2 I ever made, and I added WAY too much water to both of them. If you use as little water as possible, they won’t break. I’m about 200lbs, and can do dynos off of my holds without breaking them. Design is key here. Just don’t make your holds too thin in the crucial places. I haven’t updated my pages in over a year (maybe more) and probably won’t update it for many months to come. I’m glad to see your excellent page out there. I like your faq with Q&A. I also haven’t been on my wall in over a year, as my wife and I just had our first child. So things will be slow for me in concrete hold development. Keep up the good work! Sam (www.geocities.com/samshank/)

Email Tips: The advantage of pourable molds.
Tip:1/30/03: I’ve been reading about the problems people are having with their molds vis a vis ridges and bubbles. After a year or so of producing holds in larger quantities (50-100/mold), I’d recommend using a pourable mold material. One of the less expensive options on the market are the Oomoo series fromSmooth-On products. Check it out. The kits are somewhat pricey, but considering the number of holds you get out of 2 quarts, it makes it worth it to get consistent reproduciton of the model. Derrick Cavedweller Holds (2/5/03) Without giving away too many trade secrets, I’ll say that I used to use Bondo, but found it too dark for making brightly coloured holds. I now use a proprietary resin from a fibreglass company (www.fibre-tek.com) called FT-150. I couldn’t tell you what the formula is…but, it is a WAXED, Orthopthalic resin, into which a lot of silica sand, chopped strand, and some low density fillers get added, and it is less expensive than Bondo, and relatively clear for pigmentation. Good luck with your fomulae. After a year, I’m still tweaking mine to make it stronger in the smaller (<1/2″ thick) sizes.
Reply: Derrick, I really appreciate your tip and realize you are pushing the limit of revealing you secret by doing this. I want to let others know about this, but also want to make sure you’re ok with this before I do so. If it is ok, just give me a quick reply. Thanks again, Steve

Reply: Nah, I think you’ll find out that the Oomoo is not too expensive, and if you amortise out the cost of it, you only need to make about a dozen holds to break even. I turned out 15 holds in half an hour that cost 12 cents CAN each. Not bad. It’s okay to tell people about Oomoo. It’s not as strong as some other silicones out there, but less than half the price, so more suitable for the home user. The secret is in the mix, and as everyone who tries this finds out, THAT is the crux of producing holds. The real issue from a materials p.o.v. is to find a mix that is strong in tension (easy), compression (not too bad), and shear (harder). The FT-150 can lead to a little brittleness if youuse too much light filler (hint, hint). Another approach to it, albeit a little more expensive, is to use a ready mix 1:1 urethane instead of Bondo. IT can still be filled and sanded, and will do for home walls. I recommend it for very small holds only though, like screw-ons and footholds.

Email Tip: Advice from Ashland Products
Tip: (2/18/03) Mr. Williamson, Thank you for your interest in Ashland’s products. We rarely make claims or suggestions regarding the overall composite since we can not control any of the factors contributing to the final part except the resin. It is usually our customer through trial and error, or design of experiment, who finds the proper combination of materials to make their product better. I can tell you that in a cured state, polyester resins do not feel greasy or slick. If they do, they are not cured properly. It is probably in the other materials, or interaction of materials that this result is occurring. The only other suggestion I can make is that you benchmark other manufacturers making similar products and use these materials as a starting point, then design slight modifications to those formulations to determine if the quality of your part improves or diminishes. Sincerely, Tom Zagore Product Manager Ashland Specialty Chemical Co.

Email Tip: How to Get Rid of the Smell
Tip: (3/16/03) first off, great page. Just a few ideas for your resin holds. I’ve been making my own holds for about 4 years now, since I work as a marine engineer I’ve had the ability to actually test out differnt composites for the job. for starters the smell some people complained about is styrene, which is a product of the chemical reaction that takes place when curing polyester resins, to avoid this simply heat the hold in an oven @250 for about 10 minutes, should stop the smell. Plus if you can get to a marine supply house, or a boat shop you might try using a Vinylester resin as opposed to a polyester, the tensile strength is about double that of polyester, it can be had for as cheap as 80$ for a 5 gallon pail, shop around.

Email Tip: Texture and Variation with Play-Doh
Tip: (4/25/03) Thanks for the fantastic site. I am running at 1/8th the cost of holds made by the man, including the cost of the washers and bolts. Thanks! I used information both from your instructions and from the FAQ. I’ve done it a few times now and have a couple of comments and questions. First, I think it is important to highlight the danger of MEKP, the hardener used for polyester resins. This is not just an eye irritant, but it is corrosive to your eyeballs. A few sources seem to indicate that you don’t really have much time at all to get to an eyewash station – and I don’t know too many people with one in their garage. If you make holds, it’s a good idea to wear sealed goggles or choose a less hazardous hardener. Apparently epoxy resins use safer hardeners, don’t emit styrene and result in stronger holds, but at an increased cost and increased risk of getting the recipe wrong and spoiling your holds. I haven’t investigated this much or tried to use any, but friends have built kayaks and canoes with good results. Second, immersing silicone in hot water definitely works. I used GE Silicone 1, kitchen and bath version. After a big pot of water reaches boiling, pull it off the burner and dunk the silicone for 15 minutes. It doesn’t flow like water, but it is tons better than the cold stuff. The white stuff *seemed* to be thinner than the clear stuff. Have you or your readers noticed any difference between the clear stuff and the white stuff? Have you or has anyone out there ever tried using a different filler **with the same kind of bomb-proof success as sand?** I’m looking for an almost complete replacement for sand. The sand results in heavy holds, which might matter on my large horizontal roof area if I have so many big jugs. Climbing holds made by the man seem much lighter. I’d be interested in hearing about anyone using wood flour, normal baking flour, or some kind of bubbling agent to lighten it, maybe baking powder. (If I have some time I’ll do it myself, but right now I need to spend my time building more wall before cooking up more holds). The thing with baking powder is that unlike baking soda, it needs heat. Despite all the notes about heat and warnings of fire and explosion, my holds were not even lukewarm. The container with 8oz of resin was not warm, nor was the large hold with 4oz of resin in it. (Not that people shouldn’t be careful …) Like for everyone else, texture has been a bit of an issue over my 18 molds. Macroscopic texture, so to speak, is great. I can get great rock-like effects. However the holds don’t have the same grippiness at the microscopic level. (E.g., if you place a finger on the hold, press medium-hard and try to slide it, holds made by the man are much grippier). You mention that the tiny pits are the answer and suggest some approaches. How would you say the results of these compare to the man’s holds? One thing that can help you get varied holds is this. If you use clay or Play-Doh to make your molds, be sloppy in pulling it out of the mold. The first few holds you make will have various amounts of the residual Play-Doh stuck to it, and this eventually flakes off. The first 2 or 3 holds are thus quite a bit different from the next 10 you’ll crank out. Fortunately, pulling on soft Play-Doh leaves a pretty good texture, so it’s not like you just get a really smooth version of your hold or anything like that. I think this might be trickier with plasticine because it wouldn’t dry and flake off the hold as easily. I’ve also used Play-Doh inserts to intentionally make specific variations. Sorry for the long-winded mail, but this really is a ton of fun. Thanks again, — Paul

Email Tip: Bondo in Canada

Tip: 5/10/03 Stephen, Thanks for putting together that awesome website. I converted a corner of my garage into a bouldering wall last month, but seriously under estimated the costs of the holds. I popped out my first hold this morning. Thanks again… Very informative site. I thought you might want to post a quick note for climbers in Canada. I had difficulty finding Bondo at first since Home Depot does seem to carry it up here. It can be found at Canadian Tire in the automotive section for a reasonable price. Thanks again! Jason
Reply: Nice wall Jason! You did a great job of using the beams to add the angles and you certainly had the height to work with. I think you’ll be surprised how many Bondo holds you can make with one gallon. It’d be great to see a pic of the wall after you start to fill it up! I’ll post up your tip to fellow Bondo-buying Canadians and your wall pic. Take Care, Steve

To FAQ Page 2

Making Climbing Holds

Instructions for "plastic" holds using Liquid Resin Bondo

FAQ’s (page 1)

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